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"Silmarillion, Povijest Medjuzemlja" - 2
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ixidor
Posted: Jan 20 2008, 01:02 PM 856259


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np mi je do kreveta.
mkey, pogledat cu to kad se vratim doma.
jel ima jos detalja o tome u kojim drugim knjigama?
 
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Anduril Ulair
Posted: Jan 20 2008, 01:04 PM 856264


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koliko je meni poznato nema nista...
osim naravno HOME-a, a ja nemam HOME doh.gif
 
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Ellin
Posted: Jan 20 2008, 08:27 PM 856453


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erm, jel igdje zapisano koliko su bili stari elrond i elros kada su napravili svoj izbor kojoj rasi ce pripadati? unsure.gif
 
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Anduril Ulair
Posted: Jan 20 2008, 09:05 PM 856480


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nemam pojma unsure.gif

ali znam da je elros zivio ili vladao 500 godina...
 
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Tulkas Andhrimnirson
Posted: Jan 20 2008, 09:07 PM 856484


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Vladao sleep.gif
Dakle poslije izbora je zivio jos 500 godina sleep.gif

valjda unsure.gif
 
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Ellin
Posted: Jan 20 2008, 11:32 PM 856575


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zivio je 500 godina, vladao je, dakle, nesto krace, ali ne znam kad je bio taj izbor. unsure.gif
 
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Amarië Vëannë
Posted: Jan 20 2008, 11:36 PM 856580


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izbor je bio vjerojatno neposredno nakon Morgothova uništenja...uglavnom od tog događaja pa do odlaska Humana u Numenor, a sad ne znam koliko je dugo trajao taj vremenski period conf44.gif
 
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elrond
Posted: Jan 21 2008, 12:33 PM 856710


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QUOTE (Ellin @ Jan 20 2008, 08:26 PM)
erm, jel igdje zapisano koliko su bili stari elrond i elros kada su napravili svoj izbor kojoj rasi ce pripadati? unsure.gif

hm, da vidimo.....
Years of the Sun in the First Age
532 - Elrond and Elros are born to Eärendil and Elwing.
izbor su napravilikrajem Prvog Doba yes.gif
Both of Elrond's parents were half-elven, and after the War of Wrath (First Age, Y.S. 545–Y.S. 587), he was given a choice; whether to be counted amongst the kindred of Elves or of Men. He chose the Firstborn, and remained in Lindon with High King Gil-galad.
.....
sad, matematičari, koristeći matematiku iz ranijih postova (o trajanju doba...), dajte se na posao pa izračunajte, bit će zanimljivo pratiti rezultate jumpy.gif
 
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Ellin
Posted: Jan 21 2008, 12:37 PM 856712


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ok, nije bitan tocan broj, zanimalo me bar otprilike. tongue.gif znaci, ne vise djeca, ne kao tinejdzeri, ali jos uvijek prilicno mladi. yes.gif

Edited by Ellin - Jan 21 2008, 12:37 PM
 
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elrond
Posted: Jan 21 2008, 12:50 PM 856726


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QUOTE (Ellin @ Jan 21 2008, 12:36 PM)
ok, nije bitan tocan broj, zanimalo me bar otprilike. tongue.gif znaci, ne vise djeca, ne kao tinejdzeri, ali jos uvijek prilicno mladi. yes.gif

kalkulator i vilenjačke godine kod jednoga a ljudske kod drugoga, tvoji su prijatelji tongue.gif
 
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Shinobi
Posted: Jan 22 2008, 08:31 PM 857163


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Volio bih kad bi uspjeli skupiti svu mogucu dokumentaciju o Dagor Dagorathu.

ja imam postojece podatke:
-da ce melkor pronaci nacin kako da probije vrata noci.
-da ce ga earendil dovesti u undying lands gdje ce zapoceti "posljednja bitka"
-da ce se s lijeva tulkasu boriti eonwe , a s desna turin.
- da ce turin na kraju ubiti Morgotha.
-turin ce biti uzdignut do statusa ainura
e sad , u hurinovoj djeci ima jedan citat

"Adanedhel je mocan u pripovijesti Svijeta , i stasom ce jos doseci Morgotha jednoga dana sto stoji pred daleko pred nama."

Dali se to odnosi na Dagor Dagorath , ili nesto drugo , neznam.
Cudno mi je sto to nije spomenuto ni u uvodu ni u sastavu teksta.
U doba kad je tolkien pisao taj koncept , valari su jos imali djecu. Tako se Eonwe , Manweow sin borio s lijeva tulkasu.


ako je vama znano jos sta , samo pisite.

Edited by Shinobi - Jan 22 2008, 08:30 PM
 
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elrond
Posted: Jan 23 2008, 11:46 AM 857265


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QUOTE (Shinobi @ Jan 22 2008, 08:30 PM)
Volio bih kad bi uspjeli skupiti svu mogucu dokumentaciju o Dagor Dagorathu.


ohmy.gif ni ne znaš kakav u što si se upustio veliki.gif ogromanjska, mrcinska hrpetina materijala, prikupljenih, obrađenih, mjenjanih, promjenjenih....i što sve ne bonk.gif ....ipak, skromni prilog, kao tema za postanje:
"Even to the final war against morgoth it is Fionwe son of manwe who leads out the power of the Valar.
When we move out Manwe it will be last battle, and the end of the World (or 'arda Marred')as the Eldar would say.
(Morgoth's staying 'at home' has, as described above, quite a different reason: his fear of being killed or even hurt (the literary motive is not present, for since he is pitted against the Elder King, the issue of any one of his enterprises is always in doubt).
Melkor 'incarnated' himself (as Morgoth) permanently.
He did this so as to control the hroa, the 'flesh' or physical matter, of Arda.
He attempted to identify himself with it. A vaster, and more perilous, procedure, though of similar sort to the operations of Suron with the Rings. Thus, outside the Blessed Realm, all 'matter' was likely to have a 'Melkor ingredient' and those who had bodies, nourished by the hroa of Arda, had as it were a tendency, small or great, towards Melkor: they were none of them wholly free of him in their incarnate form, and their bodies had an effect upon their spirits."
Morgoth's Ring, text VII, str399-400
 
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elrond
Posted: Jan 23 2008, 11:51 AM 857266


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@Shinobi, pretpostavka je da si preuzeo od Meneldila materijal iz "Shaping of Middle-Earth?
ako nisi, pošalji mu pm, vjerujem da će ti pomoći yes.gif
dotad, još ti šaljem link na kom imaš dosta toga pametnog i mudrog rečenog/zapisanog:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagor_Dagorath
 
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Meneldil
Posted: Jan 23 2008, 07:10 PM 857376


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QUOTE (elrond @ Jan 23 2008, 11:50 AM)
@Shinobi, pretpostavka je da si preuzeo od Meneldila materijal iz "Shaping of Middle-Earth?
ako nisi, pošalji mu pm, vjerujem da će ti pomoći yes.gif
dotad, još ti šaljem link na kom imaš dosta toga pametnog i mudrog rečenog/zapisanog:

unsure.gif
Na što misliš? unsure.gif Ako misliš na prijevode, onda nije riječ o meni; "The Shaping of Middle-Earth" je prevodila Amárie yes.gif
I mogu se naci u pinnanom topicu prijevodi klap.gif
 
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Shinobi
Posted: Jan 23 2008, 08:20 PM 857380


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Elronde, u redu je , nemam bash sta raditi...
A i nemora biti sada odmah , vec tijekom tjedna,mjeseca,godine...

sa tolkien.co.yu

Prvi put ova bitka se pominje u Silmarilionu. U poglavlju “O Auleu i Javani” pišući o Patuljcima i njihovim verovanjima o tome kuda oni odlaze posle smrti, Tolkin je napomenuo: “... ali oni sami u to ne veruju. Jer oni kažu da Aule Stvaralac, koga oni zovu Mahal, brine o njima, i skuplja ih u Mandosu u posebnim odajama; i da je obajvio njihovim ocima u starini da će ih Iluvatar posvetiti i dati im mesto među Decom na kraju. Tada će njihova uloga biti da služe Auleu i da mu pomažu u obnavljanju Arde nakon Poslednje Bitke”


http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/.../LastBattle.htm

Wilt thou learn the lore
that was long secret
of the Five that came
from a far country?
One only returned.
Others never again
under Men's dominion
Middle-earth shall seek
until Dagor Dagorath
and the Doom cometh.

How hast thou heard it:
the hidden counsel
of the Lords of the West
in the land of Aman?
The long roads are lost
that led thither,
and to mortal Men
Manwe speaks not.

From the West-that-was
a wind bore it
to the sleeper's ear,
in the silences
under night-shadow
when news is brought
from lands forgotten
and lost ages
over seas of years
to the searching thought.

Not all are forgotten
by the Elder King.
Sauron he saw
as a slow menace....


imam sve HOME ali na engleskom i dosta nepregledne , pa ako neko ima prijevode lakse bi mi bilo....
 
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